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Anime Stash Community Forum  |  The Lounge  |  Chatbox  |  Poll, Test, Surveys  |  Topic: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
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Author Topic: Greatest Fictional Strategist?  (Read 12870 times)
Frosty
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2010, 03:45:34 PM »

Really, I personally think Ender would have to be a far better choice, but my faith in that character's capabilities is honestly quite blatantly obvious, simply look at the name. Think about it this way - he used his knowledge of the mind of an alien race moderately similar to ones found in nature. Similar in some respects neh? Though to me it seems a tad more difficult.
true the mind of an alien race is a mystery thus making it harder than anything else
but thats what also makes not the best, because it is unknown its theory and practical use cant be proven, its like alien conspiracy theorist saying they know to stop an alien invasion they dnt even know
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 04:18:41 PM by yokujin » Logged



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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2010, 03:53:18 PM »

lol Lelouch probably even predicted that Jeremiah would end up picking oranges on a farm thus the name "Orange" Tongue
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2010, 04:19:18 PM »

lelouch needs to go sit down
from the start i havent even considered him the greatest,
being good and the greatest are leagues apart
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2010, 04:29:05 PM »

i have yet to see any other character starting out with basically no power and ending up with the world in his hands. putting an end to wars and the "class system". just winning a battle or two, that has been shown many times in different series.
btw figuring out the true nature of humans or what they are thinking isnt THAT easy, if it was for you, you could take over the world right? no single human has done that.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 04:30:57 PM by Mr. Bushido » Logged
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2010, 04:43:35 PM »

No love for L ??

and havent seen enders game, dropped Utawarerumono after ep 5 ,
soo
only choices are almight lelouch, douche Lighto-kun and Welkin gunther
Hmm, Lelouch it is!
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Frosty
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2010, 05:16:28 PM »

so your saying if igain a geass go power mad that makes me a greatest strategist?
even if its fictional strategist where talking about thats just way into fiction
being a strategist is much more than that my boy
being a strategist is not only understanding the human mind,
its knowing how to use the environment , the skills of your allies , the negligence of the enemy , the thoughts and passion of the citizens
you have to take many things into account and know how to apply them properly.
thats why even if you know the human mind you cant take over the world.
a simple long tall wall impeded the mongol invasion of china
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 05:20:41 PM by yokujin » Logged



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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2010, 05:31:28 PM »

being a strategist is not only understanding the human mind,
its knowing how to use the environment , the skills of your allies , the negligence of the enemy , the thoughts and passion of the citizens
you have to take many things into account and know how to apply them properly.
lol u just said everything what Code Geass was about so stop trolling.
Did u see Lelouch use the command "Obey me!" on every person in the anime? He could've done so easily against Suzaku but told him to live instead. Power mad?? Who the hell do you think he did everything for in the end? If he wanted to he could have ruled the world for as long as he desired but instead sacrificed himself for peace.
I could go on Gambi mode and post an entire page of argument but meh don't feel like it as your points just don't seem strong enough.
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Frosty
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2010, 05:35:31 PM »

long gambi type explaintaions can still be turned upside down with 10 sentences
and everything your saying still isnt a strategist its more a general
but its fiction i dont expect them to be as good strategist as Zhuge Liang
welkin is still the only one that comes closest to being a strategist
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2010, 05:53:01 PM »

A strategist is a character and a character also requires an amazing work of voice acting to make the character more believable. Then there is the quality of animation and the sequence of events which decides how good an anime is. Atleast for me the overall package, as in, the whole anime needs to be awesomely epic. There is no one better than Lelouch, just look at the number of DVD/Blu rays it sold. Have you seen the number of people saying "A Code Geass season 3 without Lelouch just wouldnt be Code Geass". He made the show to what it is today. There will never be a "strategist" anywhere like him. Characters like Jeremiah were the generals. If you disagreee point me to some youtube videos of any characters that you can find can even match up to him.
Regarding Welkin, the anime was mostly about Valkyria and Alicia was the one to stop the war. Welkin's part wasn't that big imo.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 05:56:31 PM by Mr. Bushido » Logged
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2010, 06:08:32 PM »

you do know i was referring to real strategist concepts right not just anime right?
and welkin was a major part of it, don't forget how and why Alicia came into her Valkyrie abilities.
rewatch valkryia chronicles, and picture it without welkin, bet alicia would be dead, remeber she started to come into her valkyria powers after meeting the princess AFTER her squads success DUE to welkins skill as a strategist and also meeting rose During the exploration of the ruins because of the general being jealous again of Welkins accomplishments and faldio and welkin wanting to explore the ruins
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 06:10:38 PM by yokujin » Logged



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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2010, 06:16:24 PM »

No love for L ??
I could add him, but considering he had so much trouble with light considering the number of resources he had.  .  . Also, he's more of a detective than a strategist, Light himself was a pretty big stretch.
Though, if you do want it, I can add him, :S


being a strategist is much more than that my boy
being a strategist is not only understanding the human mind,
its knowing how to use the environment , the skills of your allies , the negligence of the enemy , the thoughts and passion of the citizens
I kinda disagree with the "thoughts and passion of the citizens" part, as a strategist doesn't necessarily go for world domination Wink

However, Lelouch did use the skills of his allies, and used the environment to his advantage. Welkin was better at it in certain aspects, the characters have they're own ups and downs. Lelouch DID go power mad a few times, but never beyond the point of no return. While he did rely a fair amount on the power of geass to form his armies, and to win key battles, that is part of war - Using what advantage you have to the best of its potential, and he did that magnificently. Were he in a position without the Geass, he would have been able to form a force, he would have been able to build an army, but a slow, painful, and very stealthy process. He frequently took the best route out of the battle to lose the fewest forces.

A strategist is a character and a character also requires an amazing work of voice acting to make the character more believable. Then there is the quality of animation and the sequence of events which decides how good an anime is. Atleast for me the overall package, as in, the whole anime needs to be awesomely epic. There is no one better than Lelouch, just look at the number of DVD/Blu rays it sold. Have you seen the number of people saying "A Code Geass season 3 without Lelouch just wouldnt be Code Geass". He made the show to what it is today. There will never be a "strategist" anywhere like him. Characters like Jeremiah were the generals. If you disagreee point me to some youtube videos of any characters that you can find can even match up to him.
Regarding Welkin, the anime was mostly about Valkyria and Alicia was the one to stop the war. Welkin's part wasn't that big imo.
Honestly, I disagree.
A strategist is someone who comes up with a plan using the resources available to pull through. How much they stand out does play a part in votes such as these due to how well you know them, however, would you like me to say Ender Wiggin is the greatest strategist because of how many copies of his books have sold (Trust me, Geass doesn't stand a chance in comparison) - no, you dont.

How well a strategist does is hard to determine one against another, as they're situations are completely different. The overall story is frequently looked at rather than the strategist themselves - but I am asking about the strategist, how well the bode in the face of uncertaintly, how adaptable they are to situations. How they turn a Disadvantage to an advantage - One that all in the list have done at least once.

This poll is very opinion based, and its my opinion that is putting the names in the poll, in one way or another, I think each of them is a great fictional strategist. That is sometimes hard to do when taking the anime and situations into account, some strategists are lost in the cracks, some seem greater than they truly are. Think about it from this point of view, if Lelouch was a general of one army, and Welkin the general of another, same technology, same abilities, it would be one hell of a war wouldn't it?

Who would win would be situational, Certain strategists are better at different types of situations. However, how prominent they are in the series doesn't really change how good of a strategist they are - simply how much you know of they're capability, making it harder to vote in a poll such as this.

Just try to keep that in mind, hopefully I wasn't too nonsensical Wink
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Frosty
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2010, 06:21:06 PM »

I could add him, but considering he had so much trouble with light considering the number of resources he had.  .  . Also, he's more of a detective than a strategist, Light himself was a pretty big stretch.
Though, if you do want it, I can add him, :S

I kinda disagree with the "thoughts and passion of the citizens" part, as a strategist doesn't necessarily go for world domination Wink

However, Lelouch did use the skills of his allies, and used the environment to his advantage. Welkin was better at it in certain aspects, the characters have they're own ups and downs. Lelouch DID go power mad a few times, but never beyond the point of no return. While he did rely a fair amount on the power of geass to form his armies, and to win key battles, that is part of war - Using what advantage you have to the best of its potential, and he did that magnificently. Were he in a position without the Geass, he would have been able to form a force, he would have been able to build an army, but a slow, painful, and very stealthy process. He frequently took the best route out of the battle to lose the fewest forces.
Honestly, I disagree.
A strategist is someone who comes up with a plan using the resources available to pull through. How much they stand out does play a part in votes such as these due to how well you know them, however, would you like me to say Ender Wiggin is the greatest strategist because of how many copies of his books have sold (Trust me, Geass doesn't stand a chance in comparison) - no, you dont.

How well a strategist does is hard to determine one against another, as they're situations are completely different. The overall story is frequently looked at rather than the strategist themselves - but I am asking about the strategist, how well the bode in the face of uncertaintly, how adaptable they are to situations. How they turn a Disadvantage to an advantage - One that all in the list have done at least once.

This poll is very opinion based, and its my opinion that is putting the names in the poll, in one way or another, I think each of them is a great fictional strategist. That is sometimes hard to do when taking the anime and situations into account, some strategists are lost in the cracks, some seem greater than they truly are. Think about it from this point of view, if Lelouch was a general of one army, and Welkin the general of another, same technology, same abilities, it would be one hell of a war wouldn't it?

Who would win would be situational, Certain strategists are better at different types of situations. However, how prominent they are in the series doesn't really change how good of a strategist they are - simply how much you know of they're capability, making it harder to vote in a poll such as this.

Just try to keep that in mind, hopefully I wasn't too nonsensical Wink
\
well said,
 but the "thoughts and passion of the citizen" aspect of what i said refer to that  if the citizens are on the strategist side it adds to his or her ability to even better accurately asses a situation.
when going into enemy occupied territory if  1 or 2 citizens manages to provide information the strategist can better prepare ey, because the unknowns in his plan now become potential knowns
anyway now that i think of if my opinions are slightly baised as i compare everyone on that list to roman and chinese strategist.
mongol invasion of china being one
(im a military buff especially when it comes to war tactics and strategies)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 06:23:05 PM by yokujin » Logged



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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2010, 06:34:24 PM »

why even talk of real strategists when the thread is about fictional ones?
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2010, 06:38:58 PM »

because you still have to apply the strategist principles,
it cant be any other way
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Re: Greatest Fictional Strategist?
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2010, 06:47:37 PM »

There are so many other characters way better than Welkin like Aizen from Bleach, Izaya from Durarara!!, Kenichi from History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, Gintoki from Gintama and Akira Takizawa from Eden of the East.

@Enderwiggin: comparing sales of a book to that of a Blu ray is irrelevant.
A book costs like what one-tenth of a blu ray?
I checked ebay just now and the book costs just 5 USD. One volume of any Code Geass season costs anywhere between 50-75 USD.
Besides anime in many countries is simple not available at local stores, my country being one of them. Books on the other hand can be easily found, hell if a certain store doesn't have it they place an order to get them but not for animes.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 07:07:29 PM by Mr. Bushido » Logged

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